Purposeful Leadership in the Age of AI: Even if You are Over 65 (Podcast and Video)

Purposeful Leadership in the Age of AI: Even if You are Over 65 (Podcast and Video)

iRetire4Him Podcast (Video and Transcript)

🤔What if “retirement” isn’t rest—but risk?

In a powerful conversation with Jim and Martha Brangenberger of iWork4Him, we challenge the myth of age 65.  We expose how traditional retirement sidelines our wisest leaders at the very moment the world faces epic change.

From the AI revolution to a rising crisis of purpose, I urge elders to rise as sages, mentors, and prayer warriors. With stories from Scripture, global voices, and our own journeys, we call on all leaders to finish strong, invest in future generations, and believe the impossible with God. This isn’t about aging out—it’s about stepping up. Do you want to join this movement?

FYI: Here is the LIVE INTERVIEW: This Retirement Lie is Stealing Your Purpose

Below are some top quotes from the interview (according to ChatGPT).

Plus, you can also:

• Read the transcript of the interview below
• Listen to the podcast and watch on video above.
• Read my pre-interview planning notes here.
• See a list of “What if…” questions here.
• Read How to Use the Power of the Moses Speaking Leadership Strategy here.

Memorable Quotes 

• “Retirement is dangerous—it silences sages, benches mentors, and vacates the gates of influence when the world most needs wisdom, courage, and truth.”
• “At 65, the world tells us to step aside. But silencing seasoned leaders in a time of upheaval isn’t just foolish—it’s terrifying.”
• “Retirement may end your job, but it doesn’t end your calling.”
• “AI is speeding up life at a lightning pace—while wisdom is being benched with pickleball. That’s a dangerous equation for the world.”
• “We face a massive crisis of purpose: 30% of retirees feel meaningless—and so do half of millennials and Gen Z.”
• “In Tanzania, caring for elders is an honor—because wisdom flows back. Here, we exile them to retirement homes and lose the treasure.”
• “What if the very wisdom we need for these chaotic times is locked inside the elders we’ve silenced?”
• “Historians say an epic shift comes every 500 years. AI isn’t just another shift—it may be the once-in-history change.”
• “My greatest concern isn’t technology—it’s my grandchildren. How will they discern truth and navigate a world on AI steroids?”
• “If God does nothing except in answer to prayer, then how am I praying for my children, my grandchildren, their marriages, their future?”
• “Prayer isn’t retirement busywork—it’s how seasoned leaders stay engaged, intentional, and strategic.”
• “Revisit your vision, mission, and values. Ask: Am I focused? On target? Doing the good work God has laid out for me to do?
• “America can’t afford a brain drain of elders. We must shift. With God, all things are possible.”

Transcript of  iRetire4Him Interview with Jim and Martha Brangenberg from iWork4Him

“Jim: The number 65 is the magical, yet made-up number that everyone tracks their life by. When someone starts work at age 20, they only have 45 years to work, and then they’ll get a well-deserved lifelong rest.

65 is magical. Or is it? Since almost every movie has a villain and a hero, I’m here to introduce the truth about 65. It could be a villain and a hero, terrifying and terrific. It just depends on your perspective.

Our guest today has a perspective on this magical 65-number ‘thing’, and she’s here to debunk the magic all the way till the cows come home out there in Stanley, North Dakota. Danita Bye is from North Dakota.

She’s 65, and she has a story to tell and maybe a small sermon to preach. Danita Bye, welcome to the show.

Danita: I’m delighted to be here. Thank you for the invitation.

Jim: I hope you feel that way when we’re done. 😉

This is what you say: You say traditional retirement is dangerous in this epic moment because it silences our sages, benches our mentors, and vacates the gates of influence just when the world most needs wisdom, courage, and truth. In fact, you summarize this by saying the church’s view on retirement is terrifying. That’s a strong statement.

Why do you say that?

Danita: Well, it was Elon Musk who used the word terrifying when he introduced Grok last week, and he said that it’s smarter than all graduate students in all disciplines performing at a PhD level across the board, and when he introduced it to the global media, he used the words terrifying and unnerving. So, Elon used those words.

I want to use the word – dangerous. But you’re right. It’s terrifying that during this time of incredible shifting and changing, our spiritual sages have been silenced, and our mature spiritual mentors have been set on the bench because of this 65 number. That is dangerous for the world.

Jim: Ten years ago, maybe even longer, I said that we’ve been sticking our retirees back in the grandstand on the grandstands. And I say, no, let’s get them back on the field.

Maybe they don’t need to run the plays anymore, but they need to get on the field as coaches, as mentors to pour into the next generations. Maybe they don’t have the ability to maneuver like the current young generations, certainly on the Internet with AI, which is exploding. Even just this year in six months, it has exploded, explaining everything John never said in Revelation.

It explains it all. But why do you think, I mean, is this something when you, I mean, 20 years ago, you’re a 45 at the peak. You’re vaulting into success all over the place.  I believe you’re still working in Minneapolis. Did you imagine that at 65 you’d be sent off to the pastures and people want to set you off to the side, sticking you in a small group of a bunch of other old people and say, Hey, I was showing people we got it. I mean, is this current observation, is this a terrifying thing? Or have you always known 65 is terrifying?

Danita: Well, I don’t think I’ve known that 65 was terrifying, but three things come together to make this season terrifying.

So, what is the AI revolution? You may have heard that last week, President Trump had the speech of a lifetime – Winning the Race: America’s AI action plan, and he talks about all this science and technology that we’re having is going to change, change the world, the way we live and work.

It’s couched with breakthrough technologies. But when you have robots like they are in revelations, when you have some organizations that are trying to create God, that’s terrifying. And then you combine with that these 65 million, 85 million retirees who have so much wisdom and insight and knowledge and discernment that they’ve gathered over the years, especially our biblical followers of Jesus.

Those are the ones that we… they cannot be set on the bench. We have got to activate them.

The third factor that comes in here is, across the nation is this incredible loss of purpose.

Statistics show that at least 30% of retirees feel a lack of belonging and a lack of meaning. Over 50% of millennials and Gen Z have a lack of belonging and a lack of meaning. So, we have this massive Crisis in Purpose.

We have this AI where the world is speeding up at unimaginable paces, and then we bring that together with our wisdom, which is slowing down, sitting on the bench, taking it easy, playing pickleball.

And then we have even the young people who have this restlessness. It sparks me to wonder about what will happen if we, as spiritual leaders, don’t step up to the plate.

Jim: I think I can tell you what happens, and we’ll let Martha jump in here anytime she wants.

I mean, I think that’s where euthanasia fits in. They’ve already said – Hey, you chronologically superior folks, you put the folks 65 and older, you sit off to the side, eventually you say, Hey, you’re in the way. So, let’s just get rid of you. Hey, you can end your purposeless life on your own.

They’re doing it in Canada already. They’re doing it all over Europe already. That’s what they’re, they’re just going to say, hey, if you have a purposeless life, go ahead and end it.

So, you’re not in the way and wasting money. I mean, cause the boomers are almost done retiring. I mean, in another three, four years, the boomers will be done hitting age 65.

And I know that because we’re not boomers, we’re Xers, but we’re at the very beginning.

When you’re retired, your calling didn’t retire.

Martha: I knew that this would be hard for me to get a word in edgewise with the two of you! I believe our listeners love it too. If they’re really paying attention to where this conversation is going to go, because these are ideas that we’re just kind of chipping away at a little bit and saying, what does God really want for us as believers in every stage of our life, you talk about the younger ones that feel purposeless and or restless and, not sure what the future is going to hold.

And yet we have been told all our lives that, of course, retirement is at the end of our long career. And, we have a different perspective on that. I hope that the listeners will be challenged to do some introspective work and to really pray with the Lord and say, “What is that stage of life supposed to look like for me?”

I really believe in the calling that God has placed on each individual person’s life that has purpose.

Jim: Let’s unpack this a little bit more. What do you think it is about retirement that you don’t agree with as a word or as a concept?  Talk about retirement.

Danita: Two things come to mind.

The first one is in Psalms 90:12 – Teach me to number my days that I may be wise. Now it was irritating to the max that the Holy Spirit brought this scripture to my attention when I was 26 years old. All my friends are pursuing the American dream, making it happen. And the Holy Spirit is inviting me to number my days. Ugh!

The Holy Spirit was inviting me to consider what it means to live on purpose spiritually, relationally, physically, intellectually, and financially.

The Holy Spirit still challenges me to live on purpose – to number my days.

Jim: They’re playing pickleball. They’re golfing.  They’re taking the trip of their lifetime. Have you ever been golfing? People who are golfing are not having fun Mark Twain said it almost 200 years ago, – Golf is a good walk spoiled. Pickleball… we’ve done pickleball.

Danita: I’ve done pickleball, too. It is fun, but I have another one that kind of connects with that:

I was hosting a friend of mine from Tanzania, Chilwa. She had been a governmental official, had been Muslim most of her life, and had recently come to the Lord.  And I was excited for her to meet one of my spiritual mentors, Priscilla.

Priscilla was in a retirement community in Minneapolis. It was the nicest retirement community in Minneapolis. And we entered the door to this beautiful plush facility that’s filled with spiritual leaders. I notice out of the corner of my eye that Chilwa has tears streaming down her face.

My first thought is – did I offend her? Was there a cultural faux pas that I made? I leaned over and asked – What’s wrong?

She said, “I cannot believe what you do to your elderly.” I’m thinking – what in the world is she talking about? !? This is a beautiful place. Chilwa continued, “In our country, it is a deep, deep honor to take care of our elderly. What we get in return is all their wisdom.”

Now, that statement rattled me! I begin to think about what the consequences are of silencing the very leaders that we should be listening to. And what if the exact wisdom, insight, knowledge, and discernment that we need for these increasingly crazy times lies with our spiritual elders?

I’m 65 – how am I called to continue to live out God’s mission for me? What are the good works that God has laid out before me during this season?

Jim: Such powerful concepts. Such a different way of looking at life.

Specifically, here in America, we think, well, they’ve reached the ultimate. If they can be in a place of luxury and have everything taken care of for them. And yet we’ve disconnected the spiritual leaders from those who need the influence, not even purposefully thinking that we’re maybe doing a good thing. But yet it’s made such a separation between where the wisdom can be flowing into the next generations.

Danita:  I must add one other thing.  I grew up in North Dakota. This is a homestead territory. So, people who moved here needed to exhibit grit and determination from the moment they woke up until their last breath. It’s built into our culture, the ranching and farming culture. It’s an innate DNA to give and to contribute. That’s another gift I bring, which is a little irritating to my husband, who would prefer that we play pickleball a bit more often.

Jim: If you’ve ever spent a winter’s day during a blizzard in North Dakota, you know that when the wind starts in Montana, it doesn’t stop till it gets to Duluth. I mean, it’s unbelievable, but this, what you just said about your friend from Tanzania is powerful because I have often said that we have convinced all of the elders of our country to move to Florida and Texas and used to be California, you know, it’s Arizona, but moved to the South away from everybody that you know, and away from everybody that you care about, including your grandkids.

So, you can live in 55-plus purgatory because that’s what it’s all about. You live in a homeowner’s association run by formerly militant individuals who are now militant as a homeowner’s association, and you lose your freedom, but you’re hanging out with a bunch of people who are in the same spot. And you don’t get to influence your grandkids.

You get to see them a week, a year, maybe, unless you go home and you’re a snowbird. And it’s true. We, our society, have been designed around pushing chronologically superior folks off to the side because it’s inconvenient.

They’re a little bit frustrating, or they move on a different pace than we do. They want to tell us stories. Oh yeah, I like telling stories.

I’m not quite 65 yet, but I like telling stories. But it’s dangerous. It’s just dangerous what we’ve done.

Chilwa hit the nail on the head that a lot of other cultures that are honor cultures would never think about doing that, but we are not in an honor culture here, as many Asian and Middle Eastern cultures are. Talking about something else that’s dangerous, when we allow most of her input to come from society at large, without putting it through a biblical filter. That’s why we love the US Chamber of Commerce. We surround ourselves with people who love business, love Jesus, and love the truth.

We’ve already talked to your friend’s example, which is fantastic. Why do you do this to your people? Let’s talk about the wide-ranging consequences on our American economy and on the church in America. Let’s talk about that because the church in America should be influencing the American economy.

We have $29 trillion of assets in Christian control that are our 401Ks. And we’re spending it on houses on the water in Florida that get blown over by hurricanes. What are the, what do you see as those wide-ranging consequences of traditional retirement?

Danita: The area that I think about is AI, and I think of the consequences to our grandchildren and our great-grandchildren. Our grandchildren, our great-grandchildren, our great-great-grandchildren. How are they going to discern? How are they going to navigate?

Historians say once every 500 years that there’s a, such a revolution in how we live and how we think, they call that time epic, E-P-O-C-H. Think of like the Industrial Revolution.

And we are in the middle of that type of change happening. Personally, I think this is more than a once every 500 years change. I think this may be a once-in-history-of-the-world change.

In the book, The Coming Wave, by AI expert Sullyman, He says, “This coming wave of technology is bringing human history to a turning point; the consequences for our species are dramatic, potentially dire.“

Dire?!? We…

Jim: I mean, sorry to interrupt you, but we know it’s not dire because the Bible doesn’t talk about the elimination of the human species until the end. So, we know that part. This guy doesn’t include the biblical perspective.

Danita: So, I think about how my grandson, Evan, who’s currently 10 years old…How is he going to navigate this? How is he going to balance these technological advances with Biblical truth? How is he going to discern?

Jim: And I am concerned about the economy of the United States.

Danita: I am concerned about my grandchildren. And how in the world are they going to navigate this? How are we going to help them? What kind of tools, what kind of resources? For me, the biggest consequence is our children and grandchildren.

Jim: The people in America have not necessarily made decisions that prioritize children and prioritize the future, um, you know, I think of abortion. I think of euthanasia, euthanasia, euthanasia.

Danita: Those are issues that we as a culture have had to wrestle with. My biggest concern is our grandchildren.

Jim: And how are they going to navigate this with a biblical framework?

We often talk about, and we said it earlier in the show, a lot of people believe that the American way of retirement and the American dream is biblical, yet the Bible does not discuss retirement unless you are a Levitical priest, and even then, you continue to mentor. So, you give up the cutting, but you teach others how to do the trade.

Martha: So, I was sitting here thinking about what you were saying, and it drew me back to conversations where Jim, you, and I would sit with my grandparents and actually sit in the living room and have conversations about things they’ve learned in life that they wanted to pass on to us.

It brings me to tears to even think about it because we don’t do that anymore. We, you know, yes, there may be families that have pockets of time where they do things like that, but the level of intentionality that my grandparents’ generation had towards us was powerful. Um, and yet we took it for granted because we just thought that’s the way it was, you know? We drove a long way to go see them, but they were very intentional, and Grandpa was a very good storyteller.

So, it was enjoyable to sit in here about the past and the things that God has taught them, but the lessons that we learned in those conversations are priceless. And if, if, you know, I think what I’m hearing you say is that if we resort to learning everything by AI, that, you know, one of the dangers is going to be the personal touch, the, the, the trial and error that came from other generations saying, you know, I did this and it failed. And this is what I learned.

And this is how I changed. And God taught me this lesson. You don’t get that with a straight line of fact, you know, that might be proposed to you.

So, you know, those are some of the dangers of taking the personal out of relationships as people look at how they retire and what they do with their futures. And you can understand why people used to say, Let’s go get a cave. Let’s go buy a cave.

We’ll go live in a cave and protect our families from all the stupid that’s coming because I mean, for the last hundred years, a lot of really for the last 150 years, a lot of stupid is coming waves, I mean, and people are like, let’s get out of here. Let’s go wait until Jesus comes back and hide in the cave. And maybe Jesus is around the corner.

Cause this AI thing is cutting edge, but I don’t think that’s what work. I know that’s not what we’re called to do. We’re called to engage the world to call, to bring the kingdom to earth.

And I want to, I don’t want to finish up a conversation talking about what you’re saying to yourself about your next 25 years, but whether you’re new to the workforce or headed towards 65 or already in your fourth quarter of life, it’s important to protect your devices because AI is coming. You got to protect it from the enemy. That’s right.

Jim: All right, Danita, this conversation is amazing. And I think we could probably go on for three or four hours, but we can’t because people may stop listening, but maybe we’ll come back. You never know.

I want to know, based on everything you’ve talked about, the terrifying things we’ve talked about, the scary things we’ve talked about, the frustrating things we’ve talked about. You’re 65. Knowing you, you’ve got at least 25 years of running in you.

Maybe just 20, but maybe until your mid-80s, maybe don’t 90. What are you saying to yourself today about how you’re going to handle your retirement years? Because the world is telling you, check out, sit on your couch, enjoy the good life, go play some pickleball  with Gordon. But what are you saying to yourself?

Danita: There’s a couple of things the Holy Spirit’s been working with me on during this season that I call the Moses speaking strategy.

Moses was effective because he heard what the Lord said and spoke it. So, I must tell you what the Holy Spirit is working with me on.

First is prayer. My friend Jim Garlow recommended a book that changed his life. If it changed his life, I’d better read it! It’s a book called “Destined for the Throne: How Spiritual Warfare Prepares the Bride of Christ for Her Eternal Destiny“, by Paul Bilheim.

This is not a normal book on prayer. So, I’ve had to stop, and I’ve spent a couple of weeks on page 46. John Wesley says, God does nothing but in answer to prayer. And then Ian Ballen says, prayer should be the main business of our day.

So, I ask myself, “If God does nothing but answer to prayer, how am I praying for my grandkids? Not just God bless them, but how am I really praying for my grandchildren? How am I praying for my kids as they parent and their marriages? Not just bless the marriage, how am I really praying for them? What about my work on the state board of higher ed? I believe that God has called me as their assignment. Am I really praying about it? And we’re starting a classical Christian school.”

We believe this is a God thing. But if God does nothing but in answer to prayer, do I really believe that? That’s one of the places where the Holy Spirit is challenging me. And I think that’s a place to challenge all of us who are over 65.

Jim: We have, many of us have extra time. We at least have control of our schedule. And I’m sure, and we all know that prayer is not just sitting down.

Danita: We can be praying all over the place. But is prayer one of the ways that we stay engaged, that we be intentional, that we be strategic? Is prayer one of the ways that we lead during this time when the world is becoming increasingly dangerous for all of us?

The second place that the Holy Spirit has me working is going back and looking at revisiting vision, mission, and values.

Gordon and I participated in a one-day workshop where we worked through this together. And Gordon and I had to talk through different, well, just so, you know, whenever you work with it together as a team, it’s always a challenging experience, but valuable. Because it helps us, it gives us some common language to say, Are we focused? Are we on target? Are we involved in things that God has graced us with? What about me? How are we doing this together?

Jim: Okay. So, in the answer to the question then, how do you see God laying out your next 20 years? Has he given you a vision for it? Has he given you a vision for the next five? And I take it none of it involves a lifetime of pickleball, tennis, golf, and the beach. No, but knowing Danita, there’s probably a little four-wheeling involved or hiking or something.

Danita: You know, maybe some hiking and some walks, and some of those types of things. Well, there are a couple of things when I look at my own priorities. Obviously, grandchildren.

You can tell grandchildren, whatever we need, I’m going to be there.

Like you, parents. We are called to honor our parents. And so, what does honoring look like? And that’s going to be very different for each of us. For me, I’m healthy. Some people aren’t, and that’s going to shift what they’re working with, but I’m healthy.

And my intent is to be like Moses and Joshua and the people in the Bible to finish strong and to keep going and to keep challenging myself and to challenge other people.

As I was thinking about this interview I remembered a conversation. I was 14 years old, and I was in an adult Bible study, and I was the only teenager in that adult Bible study, and we were looking at Mark 10.

It seemed to me that we skipped over Mark 10, 27 completely. With man, this is impossible, but with God, all things are possible. As any 14-year-old would do in an adult Bible study, I said, I think this is really an amazing verse.

All things are possible with God. And the pastor not only looked, but walked eyes with me and says, “Danita, it says that, but it doesn’t mean that.”

Jim: How sad.

Danita: Indeed! In the world of leadership studies, it’s called a Word Test. Whose word am I going to believe? God’s or man’s?

And I see that as impacting this next season that I have. There are things that are bubbling up within me. We’re starting this Christian school in the northwestern corner of North Dakota, 80 miles from the Canadian border, 80 miles from the Montana border. And I mentioned to someone we were doing this, and he said, That’s impossible to do!

I thought –  that’s exactly why we should be doing it. It’s impossible. We serve a God who makes all things possible!

One of the places where I’m challenging myself is – what are some of those things that God has placed in my heart that look and sound impossible? Let’s start praying about them.

Jim: Amen! Danita, what an incredible conversation. I love it. I’m grateful that you just poured your heart out. It’s exactly how we feel.

That’s where iRetire4Him came from, as a side ministry to iWork4Him. We cannot afford as a country, as a church, as a body of Christ, to allow the brain drain and the wisdom walk.

We can’t afford for this to happen. Yet it is a fight against that prevailing midst of Western culture. It seems impossible to change the tide of this in the Church of America. That’s why we should be doing it.

Danita: We’ve got to shift. With God, all things are possible.

Jim: Romans 12.2 paradigm shift. We must change the way we think. Danita, I would love to pick up this conversation again one day soon to hear what God has revealed to you even further about retirement.

And for all of you listening, you know, this is where we’re releasing this. It’s on iWork4Him and podcast. I want everybody to have this perspective: If you’re working, you’re not done at 65. And if you’re retired, you’re not done either.

Get off the pickleball court, get in the world, and get out in the community because the community that you live in desperately needs you. Stay on the pickleball court, get in good shape so that you have the energy to do everything that God has called you to do that’s right.

Because motion is lotion. That’s what they say. When we get older, motion is lotion.

Danita Bye, thank you for being with us today. Thank you.

Danita: It’s an honor.

Jim: You’ve been listening to iRetire4Him with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. In this retirement phase of life, I want my life to be full of meaning and purpose so I can say I retire for him.”

END OF PODCAST TRANSCRIPT